Pusha T on New Clipse Music, Settling Beefs, and Why Pharrell Is the Iverson of Fashion

It takes people a really long time to come around to the influence of Black entertainers, especially in industries as white as fashion. In the ’90s, did you ever anticipate the relationship between hip-hop and fashion evolving to this degree?

I always did. That’s the thing: I’ve never separated hip-hop and fashion. I’ve never separated it. And that’s the problem with today. My favorite rapper had to rap good and he had to dress good and he had to be swaggy and I had to cut my hair like him and I had to cut my eyebrows like him, and I had to beg my parents for the Adidas tracksuit like him. MTV Raps was my fashion tutorial. I begged for numerous outfits that were on that show depending on what artist was there. I never separated hip-hop and fashion—never. I wanted to be all things. Today, you don’t have to rap good, but you can have on the newest and the freshest Dion Lee cargoes and you the man, you know what I’m saying?

It’s funny how that happened.

And I get it. I respect it because fashion is such a big part. You got ill flow, but if the swag ain’t there, then I’m not necessarily sold all the way. And you may be saying some great things, but to me that’s what hip-hop always was. It was you admiring your favorite rapper, you seeing what he wore, and then you going outside and saying, man, Y’all ain’t get these yet. I got them. I beat y’all. Hi, look, I’m outside. What’s up? That was hip-hop.

Is the way you dress in conversation with your music, or do they feel totally separate?

It’s definitely in sync with my music. I think that the people are listening. I think the brands are listening. They’re showing me every day. Me and my wife were just invited to Switzerland for Van Cleef (& Arpels, the heritage jewelry company). Just like, Hey, come here. Come see how this is. We noticed the spikes.

I imagine pulling up to the Van Cleef in Switzerland feels pretty crazy.

Yeah, it just shows you the power of hip-hop. And that’s something that I care about. I care about checking off some of these boxes, you know what I’m saying? Some of these cultural boxes. It’s dope to see how far your music cuts through and who it reaches—the fashion houses and the brands and the jewelry houses—and everybody that it reaches. Everybody’s taking notice.

To be honest, you also got to be one of those people that can actually make that type of statement. Not everybody can name drop a brand and people be like, Oh, wait a minute, what’s that? Hold on a second. He said this, da-da. Not everybody can do that. Not everybody can tell you, Hey, don’t fuck with this brand, or That’s kind of wack. And that brand actually see a dip. Some people haven’t earned that.

(Laughs) No, they can’t. And this is a long time. This has been infused in my raps forever. This isn’t new. A lot of people don’t know what you’re talking about for a long time. And that’s where you’re developing your niche fan base, because those who do are, like, Wait a minute, he’s talking my language. And it’s only three of us. Oh, my God. That three turns to 30, 30 to 3,000, 3,000 to 30,000. And it grows small. It grows small, it takes a while, but when it’s just organically you, it’s what you do.

Is your brother on that wave? Do you put him on to new shit, or is he kind of above that in some ways?

No, I wouldn’t say he’s above it. I just think that his messaging is different. He feels like his messaging is something that hip-hop needs all the way and the things that he chooses to discuss. When it comes to fashion and just the racks and combing through them, he’s definitely not putting on anything he’s not comfortable in. And he’s very, very vocal about what it is that he wants to look like. But he just has a whole nother messaging, a whole nother messaging that he feels people need to hear. Especially in hip-hop today.

Is it helpful to have that perspective around you?

Just to be all the way honest, ever since I went solo, I heard the cries from the fans of what they were missing from the Clipse in my solo albums. And I’ve tried to mimic and infuse, and tried to cater at some points, but it’s never enough. And I had to come to terms with that. He actually brings a level of introspection that’s like, man, I can’t dial into it and do it the way the people and the fans want to hear it. And I’ve taken that L.

I don’t know if that’s an L necessarily.

I’m just saying it’s an L because I’ve tried, because I know the issue and know that I couldn’t honestly check that box off. The people have already sipped the Kool-Aid, right? They already know how it’s made. They already understand the amount of sugar that’s in it. It doesn’t taste the same when I make it, and they know that. So I couldn’t necessarily always check that box off and I was trying to, no lie.

Are you guys back in the studio making music consistently?

I wouldn’t say consistently, but we definitely have been messing around with a few ideas. I’ve been working on a couple different projects at one time, in between touring, and he’s definitely been around and been there to be a part of it. So I think he has been finding the fun in it as well. I don’t be pressing it, but it is always fun to watch him have that fun again.

Do you guys still surprise each other in that capacity?

Yeah, for sure. It has been a problem with me finishing my verse and then him finishing after me and me feeling like, Hey man, this is not fair. Something has to give. I guess I haven’t heard that level of intellect and common sense in rap in a minute. So it’s a breath of fresh air.

What was it like to perform at Pharrell’s Louis Vuitton debut? Tell me that song is dropping soon.

Oh, man, I want it to. Pharrell needed a record for the fashion show. First, he asked us to be in the show, and then he needed a record for the show. And I was like, Okay, well, shit, we might as well knock one out. And we did that. Man, it is honestly a dream come true. It is a milestone. And in my career it’s a milestone to watch P achieve his dreams and to know that this was the most watched fashion show ever. Bro, that stat alone is crazy. And then to watch those people in the audience, as soon as the music starts hitting you, see what they’re doing. You see the heads nodding. They know what that is. They know that that’s that work. And even on a Louis Vuitton fashion runway, you still getting that work.

Did the two of you sync up at some point and write your respective verses knowing what that moment would be like? Did you cater it to the crowd or did you come in and say, I’m going to do what I’ve always done because that’s what P wants to hear?

The beat spoke to the energy of a fashion show, and the lyricism was exactly what the Clipse do. Again, for us to compromise at this stage in the game, it would be a travesty. We’re compromising nothing. You’re going to get exactly what you’re supposed to get from us and what you expect to get from us. And that’s always been East Coast, hardcore, lyric-driven hip-hop. It’s never changing. I don’t care what platform, I don’t care what arena, that’s what it’s going to be.

Where do you think fashion goes from here?

I think we’re going to watch the evolution of the streetwear invasion in high fashion. We’re going to watch that evolve into another level of sophistication. What Virgil did was groundbreaking, and it set the tone for the full-fledged high fashion streetwear fusion, right? But I think we’re about to see all of that taken to the next level just because of where the key players are. When you have Pharrell Williams at the helm, when you have the likes of the Martine Roses, there’s a few key players that are super talented that know that the Virgil path was just the first step, and there are many more steps to go.

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